Kickstart for the TU?

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obriencj
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Re: Kickstart for the TU?

Postby obriencj » July 13th, 2014, 12:06 am

Getting back on topic --

I did some work and dug up the ST250XK4 parts listing. This correlates to the ST250 E-type, which is the TU250 model in japan that comes with a kickstart.

The parts list details the kickstart assembly, as well as an idler gear which fits on the clutch-cover side of the drive-shaft.

The good news? It's all, piece-for-piece, identical to the corresponding assembly for the 1983 SP250. None of the part numbers even changed. You can find the kickstarter shaft assemblies (sometimes even with idler gear) for under $50 on ebay -- no oil seal and no kick-lever of course. You can also order new versions of the same bits directly -- I've linked to the part listing at the end of this post. As I mentioned, the suzuki OEM numbers haven't changed.

The bad news? The return spring, spring guide, and circlip go *inside* the crank case. This means it's not just a matter of opening the clutch cover side and inserting the mechanisms -- you need to actually pull the engine, remove the top-end, and break the seal of the crank case. Bother. If anyone has a suggestion as to the *easiest* way to get my grubby hands inside the crank case, I'm all ears (er-- eyes, whatever).

I have all of the parts sitting on my desk (well, kickstart lever and oil seal arrive soon). I have the SP250 repair manual and the TU250 manual to act as guides, and I've been studying both.

I'm going to have a two week period coming up soon where I won't be able to ride anyway (daughter custody + summer vacation). I've been poring over the documentation, and it looks like something I can manage, albeit a pain in the butt. Any advice would be welcome!


http://www.motosport.com/dirtbike/oem-p ... CK-STARTER
(parts 2, 3, 4 go on the inside of the crank case, the rest are in the clutch-cover area. 5 and 15 are the two I'm missing)

http://www.motosport.com/dirtbike/oem-p ... ANSMISSION
(gearing may differ, but the shaft is the same as the TU's transmission. Pieces 32, 33, and 34 are the idler which attach in the clutch-cover area and are omitted on models without kickstarts)


I hope that this information is useful to everyone.

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obriencj
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Re: Kickstart for the TU?

Postby obriencj » July 13th, 2014, 12:40 am

Some pretty pictures. Click to embiggen.

Everything to the left of the pink paper is in the clutch-cover area. Everything to the right is inside the crank-case.
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Here's a different angle of the same -- you can see the little guide bits that separate the ratcheting gears when the kickstart is all the way up.
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A picture of the japanese parts list for the transmission, showing the idler gear addition
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A picture of the japanese parts list for the kickstart assembly, identical to the SP250 from 1983. Hey, if it worked, why change it?
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Last edited by obriencj on July 21st, 2014, 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

JProdun
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Re: Kickstart for the TU?

Postby JProdun » July 13th, 2014, 1:57 am

Good luck! Really interested how it turns out!

NJ-brett
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Re: Kickstart for the TU?

Postby NJ-brett » July 13th, 2014, 9:30 am

Are you sure the spring goes inside the cases?
That would be the strangest setup I ever heard of.

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Re: Kickstart for the TU?

Postby obriencj » July 13th, 2014, 10:08 am

NJ-brett wrote:Are you sure the spring goes inside the cases?
That would be the strangest setup I ever heard of.


Absolutely certain. And yeah, the assembly is "backwards" from all the other kickstart assemblies I looked at for other bikes, so it had me confused for a bit as well. The SP250 manual (I only have a PDF of it, but I can post it if you want to take a peek) is very explicit about how it's installed.

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Re: Kickstart for the TU?

Postby obriencj » July 13th, 2014, 10:47 am

Oh, and if anyone was wondering what a kicker looked like on a tux (grit your teeth and wince your way through the mechanical japanese narration) --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFZpho4b6xU

Notice that this particular one has a decompression lever as well! It appears to be an optional component, and it's not listed in the parts catalog I have. Haven't tracked it down, but it's not a necessary component (there are other videos of people kicking a ST/TU over without a decomp), it's just a nicety.

Shown is the TU250BG (grasstracker bigboy).

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Re: Kickstart for the TU?

Postby obriencj » July 30th, 2014, 9:35 am

JProdun wrote:Good luck! Really interested how it turns out!


An update on progress so far! I've got the engine out (and holy hell what a pain in the butt that was). I've got the cylinder head cover, cylinder head, and cylinder safely removed. I've got replacement gaskets ready to go for reassembly.

I've spent some time cleaning the surprising amount of carbon buildup from my piston head and the inside of the cylinder head. In order to prevent alcohol or carbon grit from falling into the case I've currently got it swaddled in shop towels like a little burrito while I scrub at the black caked mess with a soft brass brush. Only 8500 miles and it's a caked black disaster, bleh. Note to self, USE SEAFOAM FROM NOW ON. There's no evidence of oil leaking past the rings -- no discoloration along the cyl wall or the piston sides past the top-most ring -- so that's good.

I'll get the clutch cover off tonight after work and remove the primary driven assembly. If I'm fast, I may be able to start on the separation of the case halves as well. I'll post pictures of the pertinent segments (ie. the actual installation of the kickstart mechanism) once I get there.

NJ-brett
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Re: Kickstart for the TU?

Postby NJ-brett » July 30th, 2014, 1:43 pm

Please take some pictures of the piston/rings, and say how you did break in.
I would like to compare it to my motor.
Also, how many miles on your bike, and where are you?

My bike had almost nothing on the piston top or head at 3000 miles, my old bikes would have a 1/4 inch of baked on carbon (old Triumphs).

If you think the TU motor is hard to get out, you should try a bigger single or a multi cyclinder bike!
I would rather have some lower frame rails to sit the motor in, but they save weight no having them.
The big pain is the swingarm pivot through the motor mount, and that dumb brake light switch spring!

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Re: Kickstart for the TU?

Postby obriencj » July 30th, 2014, 5:14 pm

NJ-brett wrote:Please take some pictures of the piston/rings, and say how you did break in.
I would like to compare it to my motor.
Also, how many miles on your bike, and where are you?

My bike had almost nothing on the piston top or head at 3000 miles, my old bikes would have a 1/4 inch of baked on carbon (old Triumphs).

If you think the TU motor is hard to get out, you should try a bigger single or a multi cyclinder bike!
I would rather have some lower frame rails to sit the motor in, but they save weight no having them.
The big pain is the swingarm pivot through the motor mount, and that dumb brake light switch spring!


I'm glad it's only a 250, 'cause jesus christ I had a tough time with it!

I kept getting snagged on the lip of the frame that's just under the swingarm pivot, once I *finally* got that big bastard of a bolt out. I wish I'd had some friends to help muscle the bastard around, but alas it was just myself and my nine-year-old daughter and a small pneumatic jack!

My bike has exactly 8791.6 miles on the odo, and I'll post a pic in the next post. Mind you, the pics are going to be AFTER I've been scrubbing at it with a brush, so they aren't nearly as awful (you can actually see metal!) but it might give an idea.

My break-in last year was sort-of in-between wide open crazy and slow and steady. I *did* have it gunned, but only because I didn't really realize how close to the limiter I was.

My riding style is typically: from stopped to wide-open-throttle until I get to the next-to-highest appropriate gear for the street I'm on, and then I roll off and shift up. This puts me at 5th around 50 MPH (actual speed, upsized front tire) with low RPMs. I like to beat everyone off the line, but I don't like to speed, so it's sort of a race to the limit every time I take off, if you follow what I mean.
Last edited by obriencj on July 30th, 2014, 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kickstart for the TU?

Postby obriencj » July 30th, 2014, 5:28 pm

Self-explanatory pictures of gunk from a 2013 TU250x with 8791.6 miles in Garner, NC

Click the images to embiggen.

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